Wednesday’s Wondering: 72 Year Old Texas Granny Tasered (Twice) With 5000 Volts- Was It Justied Or……………..Not?
Jun 10th, 2009 by BohemianMoon
68 Comments to “Wednesday’s Wondering: 72 Year Old Texas Granny Tasered (Twice) With 5000 Volts- Was It Justied Or……………..Not?”
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I think the woman deserved to be tasered. She broke the law by speeding in a work zone which endangered drivers and construction workers. She did not cooperate with the officer who gave her several opportunities to comply, used profanity, etc. A bullet from a 72 year old woman is just as lethal as anyone else’s bullet–she’s a nut case. When someone is unreasonable and acting in an erratic fashion, they are unpredictable and present a threat. The officer was in a dangerous situation on the side of the road. Age is no excuse for her actions–tasering may have even saved her life–rubber neckers could have lost control and run off the road and injured the officer and the woman or she sounded nutty enough to run into the road. According to reports the woman is not permanently injured. Even if she were, she asked for it. She claims she didn’t resist. The videos show that she did.
Woah – I saw this clip over on another site. Terrible. I hope that because this incident involved a 72 year old Grandmother, that people will pay attention.
Just another example of excessive use of force by the police. Sadly, it seems that many of the people in law enforcement do not “protect and serve” but more like “intimidate and scare”. There was absolutely no reason for the officer to use that much force on this poor woman.
There is so much that is wrong with our justice system. There is so much corruption and racial profiling that happens it is ridiculous. I could go on for days about how I feel about the police and the system but I don’t want to bore all you lovelies.
I am sure many of you have heard about what happened to Oscar Grant, only 22 years old and shot in the BACK by BART police, while he was already handcuffed and detained. For those of you who are not familiar with this incident:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QK1DXQRQ5ZU
There are so many more, incidences of police brutality and excessive use of force. Many of which goes unreported. It is very sad.
Peace and Love to All!
#1Coyote
According to reports the woman is not permanently injured. Even if she were, she asked for it. She claims she didn’t resist. The videos show that she did.
Sorry Coyote, but I disagree with you. No woman deserves to be tasered, unless she is pointing a gun or something of that nature.
This lady was 72 yrs. old and he could have taken control of her in another way. How about putting her hands behind her back and handcuff her.
I don’t think any little ole’ lady should be treated that way. He was a man with twice the strenght as she had.
Lord help the man that ever treated my mother that way.
Cop or not.
I’m so mixed on this. At first, before I actually saw the video, I was sure that the cop did the correct thing. Now that I see it I’m not so convinced. I’m assuming that if he physically restrained her the outrage would be worse. As Coyote said, tasing her might have saved her life. She’s an idiot and needs help. You don’t get in a cops face and swear at him!! WE ALL KNOW THAT!!! {right Pippa???}
I wonder if she was on some meds or had been drinking? She definitely wasn’t rational and needed to be “calmed.” No matter what this officer did, he would have been criticized. I think he did the right thing – - the first time. Why did he tase her twice???
“Don’t tase me dude??
As out of control and wrong I think the woman was, I wonder why the officer was unable to use other means to subdue her. De-escalation? Blocking? Graduated physical guidance? Sure she could have been armed, sure she seemed ready to be hit by a car, but geez, a basket hold would have done wonders.
I don’t know..it seems rough to me. I worked in an insane asylum once and we were taught how to take crazy people down without hurting them. Seems like that cop could have done something less painful. I think the officer let his anger cloud his judgment. But, then, she is clearly off her nut. I got Tasered once by accident. It really smarts.
#2Gram123
I’ve watched several videos and read several articles. All the woman had to do was comply. She would have gotten ticketed and could have fought her case in court, although she did admit that she was speeding in a work zone. In an interview I watched, she looked perfectly fine.
Tasering may even have been safer than trying to subdue her physically. He did block her, twice, that I saw from going on to the highway. In any case, she had complete control of what happened to her.
On what age woman would you believe the taser should have been used? We can’t ask our police officers to keep our country lawful if we tie their hands behind their backs any more than we can send our men and women to war and not give them what’s necessary to fight a war, and to protect themselves and their comrades. How many police are killed each year because they hesitate to use any kind of force? In a split second, a gun can appear and a tragedy can occur. Better the tragedy occurs for the law breaker. Of course, this is my personal opinion, and as always, you are entitled to yours. Perhaps you don’t believe in tasering, anyone.
I saw this on something last night…..360* maybe or ??
The cop warned her 6-7 times that he was going to tase her if she didn’t get back in the car.
Also, she had been scheduled to appear on whichever program it was but backed out at the last minute.
They did show her early on after the incident reading from her statement and there seemed to be some discrepencies between her statement and what the video showed.
Me? I was brought up that you don’t mouth off to a cop. If he tells you to stay in a vehicle or get back into a vehicle, well, that’s what you do.
She seemed pretty argumentative from what I saw. Enough to get tased? I don’t know.
#3TVsnark
TV, I agree with you. Had that officer put his hands on her, he probably would have been accused of much worse. There’s a longer, clearer video on YouTube and some news articles and opinion pieces, of course.
I don’t know anything about Tasers…maybe they can adjust the power of the voltage or maybe tasering through clothing lessens the impact. Whichever, I think she deserved what she got. I’m not sure if she was actually tased twice. The clip on this site shows the same scene twice. My feeling is whatever it took to subdue her was okay to do.
#2Goddess Durga.
You make a valid point–I think it’s terrible when someone is treated unfairly, or worse as you describe, brutalized or killed when they’ve done nothing wrong. However, I also feel for the police officers who are shot in the line of duty–some never having a weapon. There are some bad police, but I believe the good far outnumber the bad. This woman willfully flew in the face of the law, and as I’ve already stated, in my opinion got what she deserved. Most importantly, the police officer gets to go home to his family.
Coyote~
Tasering may even have been safer than trying to subdue her physically. He did block her, twice, that I saw from going on to the highway. In any case, she had complete control of what happened to her.
In the raw footage, obviously unedited, hence “raw”, the woman was already down on the ground and THEN he tasered her – twice.
She was mouthing off, yes, but she was not under the influence, nor did she have a weapon. The cop was over two times her height and weight. Look at the beginning of the video, he pushed her backward – twice. I simply cannot believe a trained police officer could not cuff that woman without tasering her, particularly when she was down on the ground before he did – twice.
As Pat said with regard to subduing people, in my very early 20s I did an internship with a organization that had group homes for emotionally disturbed boys, ages 5-18. Many of them were in the foster care system, or had been before they ended up at the group home due to behavioral issues so sever, no foster homes would take them. I worked with all ages. I was taught how to subdue and restrain without hurting them. If I, at 5′7″ at about 120 pounds at that time could restrain a 14 year old 6′ kid in a rage without a taser or other weapon, I find it hard to believe that this cop couldn’t.
IMO he was pissed off at the woman and used unnecessary force. I hope he is investigated. I found his behavior and actions despicable.
I am not convinced age/gender has anything to do with it, but I am looking more to whether it was warranted. If a man was of the same age and physical/strength stature and this cop behaved in the manner that he did, I would be saying the same as I did above.
I think tasering for use by law enforcement (and anyone else for that matter) should be BANNED completely across the board. It should be ILLEGAL! It is inhumane and barbaric, in my opinion. There are MANY ways of subduing and restraining people without the use of tasers. I assumed law enforcement was trained how to handle and defuse a situation if possible without having to resort to this kind of violent force. This woman is elderly. How did he know if she had a heart condition or other medical issue that would cause the taser to kill her? But it should not be used on anyone – male, female, young, old. This cop needs to be investigated and fired. And when cops get fired, their pension gets taken away. This cop is a real fucktoid.
She was a mouthy out-of-control banchee who deserved what she got. The cop should not be punished ( and I don’t think he will be ).
She was daring him to do it, thinking he wouldn’t because of her age.
I think she deserves jail time.
Moon,
I forgot to add – nice seeing you here tonight on Musings! You have not been around much lately. We miss you when you are not here!! I hope you are enjoying your workshop in Boston.
Pam~
She was a mouthy out-of-control banchee who deserved what she got. The cop should not be punished ( and I don’t think he will be ).
She was daring him to do it, thinking he wouldn’t because of her age.
I think she deserves jail time.
What does she deserve jail time for?
#11BohemianMoon
Obviously, you and Pat have more experience in the area of restraining people than I. The woman, in essence, gave him–even dared him–to taze her. They were very close to the road. Had she gotten past him (which he was preventing, physically), she could have been killed. I still think she could have suffered worse injuries had her arms been placed (while she was struggling) behind her back so that she could be handcuffed. Old ladies have brittle bones. (g)
They’ll be an investigation, but judging just from what I saw and heard (and the interview with the woman afterward), I think the taser was the best way to subdue her. As Pat said, “It smarts”, but that’s better than being hit by a car or breaking a bone while being physically subdued. And, as TV pointed out, if the officer had put his arms around her, he most likely would have been accused of far worse.
She, not the officer, caused the incident.
Merette~
This woman is elderly. How did he know if she had a heart condition or other medical issue that would cause the taser to kill her?
Exactly. She could have been easily restrained, but he was PO’ed and chose to taser her. The cop was a loose cannon than she, IMO, however isn’t he the one that is supposed to be able to control HIS emotions to clearly and effectively deal with each and every person they encounter they feel that has broken the law?
He was far, far from it IMO.
Moon: What does she deserve jail time for?
—–
Resisting arrest?
Glad to see you back, too.
Coyote~
Obviously, you and Pat have more experience in the area of restraining people than I. The woman, in essence, gave him–even dared him–to taze her. They were very close to the road. Had she gotten past him (which he was preventing, physically), she could have been killed. I still think she could have suffered worse injuries had her arms been placed (while she was struggling) behind her back so that she could be handcuffed. Old ladies have brittle bones. (g)
Old ladies can have even more “brittle” of hearts, too, even more so than bones.
The cop had plenty of time to restrain the woman. She was not under the influence, nor did she have a weapon. He allowed himself to get into a battle of wills with her. With each of her retorts his vocals got louder and louder, as did hers. They had a shouting match with his anger escalating to a unprofessional point. Instead of safely restraining her, he allowed this to continue (with a few shoves to her in between). She was ON THE GROUND, then he tasered her TWICE. I find it hard to believe that if this cop could not restrain her while she was standing up, he couldn’t even manage, without a taser, it when she was on the ground.
The cop let his emotions get the better of him; entirely unprofessional. He tasered her out of emotion, IMO, and not because she was any real threat. I fully believe that she should have gotten the ticket due to her, in addition for being arrested for resisting arrest, I am not disputing that, I am disputing the amount of force this cop used – it was, IMO, an abuse of power.
“In the raw footage, obviously unedited, hence “raw”, the woman was already down on the ground and THEN he tasered her – twice.”
He tasered her twice because she was STILL being belligerent. He commanded her to put her hands behind her back (a move meant for the officers safety) and she was still refusing to cooperate! I’d taser her again too.
In addition to thinking that she has a license to do as she pleases due to her age I’d like to point out that this old bag is a LIAR! There is footage of her whining to a news agency about her supposed miss-treatment and claiming that she was not argumentative or combative. Now that the police agency has released footage of her being argumentative and combative she’s not speaking! Niiice!
She was the one who was out of control. 72 years old or 18 years old, it makes no difference. She started mouthing off from the get go. The law is the law. all she had to do was sign her name to the ticket saying she would show up at court. That was it! She refused and she escalated the incident. She was tasered while stand up and starting the scream when she was down. Which would have been worse, him tazing her or him and another cop “man handling” her and breaking a bone? Or even letting her in the road and being hit by a car?
This is one that I feel is justified.
Now that the camera video is out, she is no longer talking because she lied about the whole incident. She left him no choice–especially after she DARED him to taser her. If she had a heart condition or whatever, it still would have been on her.
Coyote~
Moon: What does she deserve jail time for?
—–
Resisting arrest?
Glad to see you back, too.
As I said in another post, I would agree that she should be charged with resisting arrest. Jail time in light of the cop’s behavior an use of undue force? Nope!
Also, how do we know that this woman – an elderly woman – did not have some form of dementia or mental illness that caused her to act this way? Maybe she was off her meds because she could not afford them. This is what disturbs me so much about people in general – they often have a “one size fits all” approach to handling problems, issues, and situations. This is so narrow and ineffective. And, in this particular case, horrific and inhumane.
I gotta say excessive force on that. #1 Tasers have killed teenagers, and people with heart conditions. Being 72, that was a risk. She may have been mouthy with him but to taser her twice?? My husband showed me this earlier today and he even said that was F***ed up. Ok, now you know I have a weakness for animals, kids and elderly. And I am in NO way anti law enforcement, however there is a difference when there is abuse of power. IMO…… And here in AZ we have had numerous cops go nuts and shoot someone over 20 times when once would have been enough. I have learned if I get pulled over to leave my hands on the steering wheel and let them approach and then ask what they need.
iluvobx~
The law is the law. all she had to do was sign her name to the ticket saying she would show up at court. That was it! She refused and she escalated the incident. She was tasered while stand up and starting the scream when she was down.
I would disagree that the “law is the law”. While people would like to believe that the law is that black and white, there would be no need for the legal system if it were.
She was not tasered while she was standing up. She was already down.
THis cop lost his professional cool. Not good for cops not to keep their emotions in check,IMO.
Actually I saw her on HLN early this evening, and she wasn’t lying about the situation since they played the raw video for her.
I’m going to put this out there. I dont trust cops. And I’ll tell you why. A year ago, I was with friends who were being drunk and stupid (I was sober, but I was with them, so)…we got arrested for disorderly conduct at a street party. While I was in the “holding cell” they decided they wanted to search our cars. I said “I want to be there if you do.” Well, they had my keys, and a while later they came in and said that the dog had hit on my car and they had found pot seeds in my ashtray.
Now A) I have never smoked pot, no one who smokes pot has been in my car (the friends hadn’t been – only my parents and brother whom I know dont smoke pot) and B) I didn’t even know my car had an ashtray, let alone where it was and C) I wasn’t there to see the dog supposedly hit on my car, so I don’t know if the search was legal
This leads me to have no other choice but to believe that the “seeds” were planted there by the cops, so they could have an excuse to search my car.
I wasn’t charged for the pot, because of course, I had nothing illegal in my car, and they had planted it in the first place.
I was also treated really shittily by the cops, things were said that I don’t want to remember so I wont go there.
But I no longer have any trust for law enforcement.
Hmmm…..I watched this a few times and it seems as if some parts are left out. Does anyone have the link to the full version?
From what I saw, you have a woman half his size and madder than a wet hen. She was wrong for not complying, completely wrong, and she should have done as she was told. It looked like he tased her and then she went down, not the other way around. I think the minute he pulled out the taser it went to another level. Kind of like “I have my weapon out and you are going to respect THAT if not me.” I hate weapons of any kind, understand that law enforcement put their lives on the line everyday, and have heard awful stories about supposedly safe methods of restraint. I would not want to make these type of calls.
Is it normal to get a speeder out of a car on a busy highway? Or was there suspicion of her having a weapon or something else. Or maybe she got out on her own. I just can’t come to any conclusion other than she was just plain stupid and stubborn and used the “I’m a 72 yr old woman” line as if it were a free pass to break the law. Young people have heart conditions, bone diseases, etc. It isn’t an age thing, it’s all in the attitude. And she was on a cell phone when he pulled her over.
I think she said, “I’m a 72 yr old woman just give me the ticket and I’ll sign it”. Most people pulled over for speeding just expect to recieve a ticket with the usual jabber about how much it is, where to pay the fine and how to drive safely. Perhaps, police have a different protocol for having the speeder get out of their car in work zones, idk. And I doubt that she expected to be forced out of her car.
The cop was a bully. She was on the ground. I don’t think this lady is nuts.
I was pulled over once, with my baby in the backseat, for having my high beams on at dusk. When the cop approached my door, I told him the reason I put my beams on is because my one head light just went out a few minutes ago, as I was driving home from the store to buy diapers. He treated me like I had just escaped from prison. A total cock. Long story short, I went to court and showed the judge a reciept that proved I had my headlight fixed the next day. I told the judge how abrasive the cop was with me….and I could see her face turn red with anger. My ticket was thrown out and I think the cop got a good talking to.
BTW, I only use my high beams when no one esle is on the road because I think it is really rude.
fadingnebula,
I have never had an experience like the one you had with the cops (and I hope I never do). Sorry you had to go through that. Frankly, I find cops scary, too. Any interaction I have had with them (three times in my driving history) was for speeding tickets (during the day) and the interaction was pretty cut and dried. But there are plenty of nuts out there – look at Drew Peterson, for example – facing trial for murder of his third wife (# four still missing). He lives not too far from me and I would never want to be stopped by someone like him. He is a classic abuser of power.
I disagree with those who think the officer used excessive force. She should have signed the ticket and fought it in court which the law allows you to do.
This is what I saw from the raw video:
1. She refused to sign the ticket and said “Take me to jail”
2. The officer obliged her, asked her to step out of the vehicle.
3. When she stepped out of the vehicle, she approached him in a menacing manner and used profanity.
4. The officer shoved her away because she was getting up in his face like she wanted to rumble him and they were on a busy major thoroughfare.
5. She was continuously asked to step away from the road and was warned that if she did not do so, she would be tazed. Instead of complying, she actually dared him to taze her.
6. When he went to put cuffs on her she, resisted arrest, pulled away from him and still refused to comply. She was initially tazed standing up.
7. She was given 2 more “rides” when she still refused to put her hand behind her back.
If she was a 6′2, 28 year old male, would there be the same outrage? What this officer did was standard protocol. In fact, whenever you get a ticket (and I know, trust me), it says refusal to sign the ticket will result in immediate arrest. There are no stipulations for being mentally ill, old, skinny, fat…whatever. The law does not discriminate.
Some of you said that he should have attempted to restrain her? That would have been extremely dangerous to do on a major highway. There are cars driving at high speeds. What if in his attempt to restrain her and her attempt to resist restraint, they both ended up being hit by a car. This officer acted quickly and decisively to protect his own safety and hers as well.
I have no sympathy for this woman whatsoever. If you behave like a criminal, you will be treated as such.
I think he could have used better judgment. He should have cuffed her before he did what he did. I wouldn’t want my grandmother done this way….whether she mouthed or not. I think this cop was out of control more than the little old lady. I personally don’t know how he sleeps at night.
Moon, I knew #31 would go into moderation because of the posted URL–The off topic comment was meant for your eyes only.
#32lisa k
He was trying to cuff her–she was resisting. It also looks like he was trying to radio for assistance (maybe a female officer?). He warned her as many as five times. Maybe Moon will post the URL that I sent.
Let me rephrase part of my comment..I think he should have hand cuffed her INSTEAD of doing what he did. It sounded like I wanted her cuffed then tasered, now that would have been ugly wouldn’t it? lol!
He attempted to cuff her without use of the taser. What this video does not show is that he did not use the taser until, after attempting to place her under arrest, she jerked away from him and attempted to get back into her vehicle. Also, he didn’t force her out of her vehicle. She refused to sign the ticket and requested to be arrested instead. He asked her to step out of the vehicle to arrest her. This is standard operating procedure. She was 100% in the wrong on everything she did (down to the reason she was pulled over) and all of the choices she made.
If you google, you can find the whole video.
I would have to see the whole thing to make up my mind completely, but I just get a bad feeling about this. The cop seems kind of to angry to start with. I wonder if he would want his granny done this way?
I think if this would have been a grown man acting like this and he felt like his life was at stake, the he would have been justified, I think he could have handled it differently with a feeble 80 something granny half his size. Poor, poor granny.
She wasn’t feeble. I wouldn’t take her on!
I’ve heard stories of Grandmas beating their attackers to bloody pulps. Old doesn’t mean feeble, IMO
Judging by this excerpt (Is there more to this video/story? I don’t know.), I watched the video and my first knee jerk reaction is the policeman over reacted.
BUT we are not police officers who deal with criminal mentality on a regular basis. YES, even 72 year old woman are lawbreakers! A Policeman needs to quickly assess the situation and react to maximize public safety. On my second look I saw with in those few seconds:
1. A woman who is obviously belligerent and causing a potential life threatening situation for herself, the policeman and the general public passer by.
2. A woman who could be high on a drug.
3. A woman not submitting to requests to step back from the road.
4. A woman taunting a police officer.
5. A woman who heard an officer warn her what was coming if she did not contain herself.
6. A woman who choose not to adhere to the warnings.
If he does try to physically restrain her steps from a busy highway she could have shoved him into traffic or she could have resisted and put herself in front of another car. This was not just an elderly woman and a policeman involved in this altercation. Every driver on that rode was in potential danger because of this woman’s hazardous actions. He may have made the right call in the seconds he had.
I’m staying out of this one.
All I am going to say is that I saw the woman on television going on and on about how the police officer was lying and that he made up the whole story of her resisting. Once the video surfaces, she shut her mouth and hired a lawyer.
fadingnebula,
There are some informative clips made by a lawyer, on youtube about your rights and when cops are allowed to search cars and homes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIsSyP4Xq1M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Glpy3f-tEfY&feature=related
I was pulled over once and the cop saw my book bag sitting on the backseat. He asked, “what is in the bag”? I answered truthfully, “books”. He then asked if he could look in my bag. Even though I had nothing to hide, I said “absolutley not”. How dare he?
I was pulled over for a bullshit, illegal reason and let go without a ticket. Bottom line, ya gotta know your rights because otherwise a bad cop can trample over you. Not saying this happened to you. Just sayin’.
I would have hired a lawyer to. I think she probably has a good case. A woman this age could have suffered a heart attack with that type of voltage. This cop acted to fast, and did not think this through as he should have, IMO. I would still like to see the whole video to really make up my mind, but judging from this one, I think he was out of line.
#34lisa k
It sure wouldn’t have helped his image!! LOL
I just heard on the news that an “88 yr old white supremacist” opened fire in the Holcaust Memorial/Museum in Washington, DC, killing a security guard.
What is happening in this world?? 18, 28, 72, 88, 108…I guess it doesn’t much matter the age, does it?
I’m going to have to see that raw footage. This one is just too vague. Afte reading NotThatGirl’s comments it makes me think twice.
Pam
She was a mouthy out-of-control banchee who deserved what she got. The cop should not be punished ( and I don’t think he will be ).
She was daring him to do it, thinking he wouldn’t because of her age.
I think she deserves jail time
Really? Jail time? Shouldn’t the probable gravel mark on her forehead be enough punishment? This is an old lady who went above the speed limit, albeit not safe in a work zone but, still we aren’t talking about Al-Qaeda here.
45shmedelle
Pam
She was a mouthy out-of-control banchee who deserved what she got. The cop should not be punished ( and I don’t think he will be ).
She was daring him to do it, thinking he wouldn’t because of her age.
I think she deserves jail time
Really? Jail time? Shouldn’t the probable gravel mark on her forehead be enough punishment? This is an old lady who went above the speed limit, albeit not safe in a work zone but, still we aren’t talking about Al-Qaeda here.
YES … jail should be an option!!!!! This is the equivalent to drunk driving. I am a civil engineer and I have often been out on the road with survey and construction crews. Often I have lost my balance to a speeding car or stepped back (when given a chance) with only an orange mesh vest to protect me. Thousands of construction workers die every year because of these careless drivers who can’t do something as simple as follow a speed limit? Give me a brake … literally!
I have a major problem with this.
Clearly, this woman was “out of line”, but clearly – also – she was not a threat or a match for this police officer. He was twice her size and could have subdued her, handcuffed her, WHATEVER else besides tazering her!
For goodness sakes, younger people have DIED from being tazered!
HIS LIFE WAS NOT IN DANGER! So I see no reason to tazer the little old lady – no matter how obnoxious she became.
#46Jeanna
… jail should be an option!!!!! This is the equivalent to drunk driving. I am a civil engineer and I have often been out on the road with survey and construction crews. Often I have lost my balance to a speeding car or stepped back (when given a chance) with only an orange mesh vest to protect me. Thousands of construction workers die every year because of these careless drivers who can’t do something as simple as follow a speed limit? Give me a brake … literally!
Okay, I concede the point that she was in the wrong and that maybe she should have even gone to jail. You are absolutely correct in your assesment that she was wreckless. However, the question really isn’t, was she endangeiring the workers, or even the cop? Clearly, she was because she was speeding. What I think the outrage is, is not her actions so much but, the police officers’. Was it necessary for him to use the force that he did? I think not. She was on the ground when tasered. At that point, he could have easily cuffed her. So, I think this is not a case of a person wrongfully detained and or arrested, but rather a case of an officer useing excessive force. In which case it is never justified.
I’m on the fence about this one–this woman (of her age) should know better that when a police officer approaches your car you should be polite and hand over your license, regist. and sign the ticket. THEN fight the ticket in court if you are sure it was issued unjustly.
My mom and my MIL are 72–they are in no way “fragile” and they both would argue with you if you called them “elderly”. Would I want them tasered in this situation? Of course not! I think tasers should only be used sparingly, as a last resort, instead of a gun (if possible).
However, she was resisting—she pulled away from him and was about to get back in her car. If he used more physical force, he also could have hurt her that way–even inadvertently. They were dangerously close to traffic when having this “discussion”–the woman and/or the police officer easily could have been hit by a vehicle in any kind of scuffle. I think that no matter what the officer had done in this situation–short of just letting her go–he would’ve been criticised.
The law is not supposed to discriminate — adults are held accountable for their actions. My guess is a 20-30 year old male in this situation definitely would’ve been tasered.
I did not watch the video and do not plan to. I do not like police officers..period.
My husband is black. He works 2nd shift and he would take a walk around the neighborhood after work for exercise and to clear his head so he could sleep.
The route he walks is a circle and it passes by several car dealerships. Someone saw him walk near the car dealership and called the police for suspicious activity. He was at the gas station to get a water before heading home. When he got out, he was surrounded by 4 cop cars. They questioned him, made him spread on the police car, and cuffed him while they checked his ID. When the cops found nothing, they let him go. Many people in the gas station were screaming Profiling! I believe it. I bet if my white chunky Mom ass was out there walking with him..it would have been a NON-ISSUE.
After that incident, I bought us all a gym membership. He can walk to his hearts content and I do not have to worry about him being harassed.
#50Heidi
I’m very sorry to hear about your husband’s experience.
#19BohemianMoon
The cop let his emotions get the better of him; entirely unprofessional. He tasered her out of emotion, IMO, and not because she was any real threat. I fully believe that she should have gotten the ticket due to her, in addition for being arrested for resisting arrest, I am not disputing that, I am disputing the amount of force this cop used – it was, IMO, an abuse of power.
I agree with you Moon. He tasered her out of emotion , or lack there of, and it was an abuse of power.
Someone said “brittle bones”, regardless, she was no real threat to that cop. She deserved some amount of respect . Not because she was a woman, 72 yrs. old or had brittle bones. She is an american citizen and deserved better that what she got.
How would he feel, if that same situation, would have with his own mother involved?
I can’t stand the people in our system that abuse their power when it is not warranted.
Don’t mess with Texas!
I tend to agree with lisamarie. May people fail to realize you are required by law to sign a citation. It does not say your are guilty just that you did receive the ticket. I saw her argueing, he then asked her to step away, not only from him but the roadway a dangerous place to be, he called for assistance to which she again became agressive. A woman can carry a gun as easy as a man I have always heard it said. Whether she posed a threat or not is always easier to determine after the fact. If he were to have grabed her she might have bruised or tried to get away causing injury as well. The issue I take withhis is at one point she did agree to sign the ticket.
wow…the radio all day yesterday had callers on both sides. I’ve watched the video, read the comments and I really see this as a case of TWO wrongs do not make a right…..one of the first lessons in life!! they were both wrong….she was so deifient, daring the police officer again and again. But, I gotta believe the six foot somthhing officer could have taken her with one hand behind his back. not sure , its so sad how nasty our world has become……i;m like you moon, i’ll go hang in the garden.
I am still thinking this cop stepped over the line. There are so many shootings by cops that are unjustified….. like the shooting of the unarmed black teen about a year ago. There are so many things he could have done instead of tasering. I really don’t think that little old lady was causing any harm to anyone. Was she annoying…yes, but annoying didn’t justify what he did. She wasn’t grabbing at the gun or hitting him. Having a bad attitude and possibly some mental setbacks (due to old age) did not justify this cops actions.
Pam said:
“She was a mouthy out-of-control banchee who deserved what she got. The cop should not be punished ( and I don’t think he will be ).
She was daring him to do it, thinking he wouldn’t because of her age.”
I agree. If it had been a 72 year old man behaving that way, he would have deserved the same response. Her gender and age do not excuse reckless endangerment of other drivers and her behavior toward the copy. Jail time? Yes!
First off, I think the woman is a kook. I believe she resisted, and should receive the proper punishment for that. (Taken to jail, or whatever is the protocol.) That being said, I think the officer is a dick. He could have easily remained calm and the situation would have been a lot better. Yes, she escalated things, but he has to be the bigger person here. Calmness is always the way to go. It’s like dealing with your child. If you get all riled up and holler at them, you don’t accomplish anything. These two are both at fault, IMO.
Just because she is 72 doesn’t maker her a little old lady, I have many clients that are older than that and they can out lift, out run and out perform many younger than them at my club.
This woman is clearly not a “little old lady”.
I was talking to my neighbor, who is a defense attorney, this morning. We both walk our dogs on the beach in the mornings. He said that police are frequently discouraged from making hand to hand contact with a person because so many people have managed to grab their guns and use them on the officer and innocent bystanders. He said that police also carry other things on their belts that can be removed and used in a scuffle as well, like pepper spray etc…
His thoughts on this is that the cop could have probably hurt her worse if he had used manual force. Given the womans age and possible fraility of her bones she could have ended up a lot more bruised and battered if the big guy started to wrestler her into cuffs.
He had seen the clip and said the officer gave her ample warning of intent to taser so he is covered for doing so. She was obviously combative and sometimes even little old women if they are launched into a psychotic episode can be powerfully stong and hard to bring under control.
My original question to him was why the cop wanted her to get out of the car in the first place. Given it was a work zone and only a speeding ticket. This…he could not answer.
My neighbor also felt certain that the cop tasered her while she was standing and then tasered her again to minimize thrashing that could result in more bodily harm than another shot of volts would.
He also said that if she had died from a heart attack it would be written off as an “Oh well” because the officer had warned her of his intent. He sees no possible way, at this time, for the cop to be held accountable of any wrong doing because it was so well documented on the film. My neighbor is a great guy but he is a defense attorney and is the go-to lawyer for cases like this…
I’m not really sure how I feel about this whole thing. I certainly don’t approve of police brutality and she is a little old lady but I also feel for what the cops go through on a daily basis too. She did admit to speeding so she should have just quietly taken her ticket and maybe avoided the whole thing.
Maybe more info will come out as to wheither there were other dynamics, circumstances or a condition that caused her to lash out. But the officer had no way of knowing these issues so still could not be held accountable for them.
I just figured I’d share what I had learned and throw it into the mix.
Moon,
When I first saw the video I had a knee jerk reaction to the taser incident. And then I started reading the other opinions on this site and started to see both sides of the coin. My final analysis is just this….. I don’t have one. I’m not prone to be a “fence sitter” and have always taken a strong stand on any given issue if and when I have all pertinent background information. But after reading everyone’s opinions I was reminded why I come back to your site again and again – the discussions are intelligent and thought provoking and I appreciate each and every one of you. Thanks, Moon, for providing another topic for lively conversation. You hit it right on the head by posting the video and asking for your reader’s opinions.
#60 Nina
“We both walk our dogs on the beach in the mornings. ”
Lucky duck, walking on the beach every day =)
There are many more detailed videos (and transcripts) on other news site. Here’s one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s32ejK3U0rw&feature=response_watch
They clearly show there is more to this arrest. He tries to handcuff her and she walking away and saying she is getting back in her car. She was coming at him like a raging bull while there were cars speeding by.
While I will not down play actions of other policemen in other situations that ended in unprovoked death, racial injustice or discrimination, none of which is the case here.
As a matter of fact, she tried to use age and gender discrimination as a weapon to resistance. Take away 72 years old and her female gender. I’ll even take my personal feelings on her speeding through a work zone. What you have left is an unruly unpredictable criminal, plain and simple.
Traffic stops are the unknown factor in police work. Policemen are killed by rubberneckers and other speeding cars. Passengers of the car may have weapons. You don’t think THIS person could have had a gun in her car? Policemen get hurt, killed and have had their guns taken and used on them in physical struggles with suspects. That’s why there are tasers and pepper sprays to placate the criminal till the cuffs can go on. Why should he have gotten hurt by this person who was obviously ready to duke it out with him?
This person was out of control and was causing a life threatening situation to the general public on that highway.
Bottom line he repeatedly gave her warnings he would taser her if she did not do as he told her. Her response: “GO AHEAD AND TASE ME.” She choose to show at every turn she had no intention of cooperating. She choose unwisely.
#60Nina
Looks like we made the same points at the same time!
#50 Heidi
What a horrible experience for you and your family. Your story made me so angry!
I apologize in advance for the long post – not normally my style but you hit on something I’m passionate about…..
#2 Goddess Durga – I had not seen or heard about the man in California. Thank you for sharing that – very disturbing to say the least.
#26 fadingnebula – I’m not sure what the laws are in your state but in Illinois a K-9 dog “hitting” on a car is considered probable cause to search the car. I’m sorry to hear about your experience. Something similar happened to a friend of mine. He’s a chef who was taking the train home late at night, got off the train, and was detained for an hour as a “gang-banging drug dealer” by two undercover cops. They even went so far as to pat him down and “find” a dime-bags worth of marijuana on him. He was eventually let go and no charges were filled. Luckily he was respectful and followed instructions but the idea of what could have happened if say he mouthed off to the two guys in plain clothes before they identified themselves is very scary.
Now for my .02 – my father is a 25+ year veteran of the police force. I also have numerous family members and friends that are duputies and police officers (some of whom work in the roughest areas of Chicago and some who are pretty high ranking). Let’s just say I have a lot of names to drop if I’m ever pulled over. All will state that there are police officers who are “tough guys” who abuse their authority. However, there are tons of police officers who try to do the right thing for the community and are honest hard-working people. I think it sucks that they all get tarred with the same brush.
I believe that one of the issues plaguing police forces is that many officers are selected based upon “clout”…they have family or friends in high places that get them put to the head of the line. This entitlement makes many young cops feel they are above the law and they take a “hard-ass” approach. The even scarier thing as those who do have clout will rise higher and faster in the ranks and exude a large influence upon younger generations of cops.
The woman was warned several times. Personally – I don’t approve of the use of tasers but the idea that physically restraining her would have been better is a bit ridiculous to me. She should have kept her behind in the car and signed the ticket. She created this drama and got what she deserved.
My Mom is 71 and in no way frail as far as we can see neither was that woman. That being said I can’t compare my Mom to that woman (please note I will not use the word lady to refer to her because IMO she in not one) Mom never drove a day in her life. Dad is almost 77 and still drives and does not get tickets and is a careful driver, he is cognizant of his age and said he will not fight when he is too “old to be doing this anymore.”
But I have always been taught to follow the rules of the road by my parents, this woman is a great-grandmother–is that what she teachers her children/grandchildren? To disobey laws? To be disrespectful when found to be wrong? To be combative by getting out of the car in the first place?
If she wasn’t speeding this wouldn’t have happened, if she stayed in the car this wouldn’t have happened. Could she have perhaps not want to have admitted she isn’t good at reacting to posted road signs anymore due to her age and is fighting to keep driving? I don’t know I just watched it a few times and I see someone being warned a LOT who refused to listen and baited a police offiecer–did she expect to berate him into just forgetting the whole thing and let her go?
My parents are always making sure we know as parents it’s up to us to set the example for our children, if that’s the one she’s setting God help her family.
#64 jeanna,
Almost point for point too!
#65 outofKontol,
I love my ocean. When I travel I have to take along one of those little sound machines with oceans sounds or I can’t fall asleep… I’m addicted to the sea. It’s great until a full-moon with high-tides and a hurrican blow in….Then you gotta RUNNNN to higher ground!!
#61 Kathy
Same reason I read here daily. Thanks to all from me as well. I don’t always post because most of the time once I’ve read all the comments at least three people have said exactly what I was going to say but they said it better…